#Ladynoir partnership critical

[familyagrestefanblog]

Im not disagreeing but this is also only half true for LadyNoir.

What Adrien mostly has learned is that he himself shouldn't rely so codependently on Ladybug because it's too much for her and that it's okay when SHE relies on other people that doesn't mean she doesn't want him.

But non of this lead to the important partnership development of Chat Noir too getting someone/other people he can rely on the way Ladybug can. Who can he rely on?

All that happened is that Chat Noir now tries to "burden" Ladybug as little as possible with him needing her for emotional support, all the while Ladybug is now relying more than ever on him for said emotional support. And that highlights the problem:

If Adrien ever needs any kind of help with anything Chat Noir related and needs someone by his side as support, who does HE have to help HIM? This season Adrien for example is struggling more than ever with his cataclysm and the morality of using it on people, and yet he still has no one to talk to besides Ladybug for who he would feel bad for if he'd mentioned anything towards her because she needs him to be her unshakeable rock.

The resistance? This is Ladybugs team and season 5 is still mostly treating it them that way. He is just part of Ladybug's team and her main partner still available now, that doesn't mean Adrien can rely on any of them as Chat Noir. Kwamis choice Was pretty clear on that front, they are LADYBUG'S team.

And I don't think this is me being mean and nitpicking. The development you say that happened didn't actually happened that way and neither is it something to JUST be celebrated as GOOD.

Marinette is now IMMENSELY emotionally dependend - more than ever before - on Chat Noir and him being the only person who does not need to rely and depend on her 95% of the time and instead needs him to take care of her, even though that has long crossed the line of horrifyingly dangerous since Chat Noir has literally NO ONE and therefore he should be the ONE person who should be allowed to need her. But he doesn't get to have any actual support, he just has to continue BEING the support and handling everything on his own with plaggs help and plaggs help ALONE.

Marinette revealed herself to Alya because she needed someone to help her deal with her civilian life and to have someone to talk about all the Ladybug stuff when she didn't dare to talk to Chat Noir.

But Adrien as Chat Noir by this point is basically forcing himself to be as hyper independent from Ladybug and everyone else as possible beyond all reasoning and safety too, because she needs him so much right now to be the one who is okay and can pick up all the slack - especially strict identity RULES wise - if she needs him to, so that he barely dares anymore to ask or voice anything that goes beyond the absolute minimum.

I dont know what yall are watching but Ladybug is emotionally just as dependend on Chat Noir now as Adrien is on Marinette as civilian. They ARE still codependent, it just shifted in the way it's executed.

Adrien is now getting send to London and just like in "Risk" he apparently has no intention on letting anyone know. Least of all Ladybug which is the biggest red alert and indicator that Ladynoir merely developed into Chat Noir not daring to talk to or even ask his partner for help regarding ANYTHING no matter how on fire his civilian life is.

(which btw she CAN help him. Chat Noir has a horribly abusive parent who holds all the power over his life and who he as civilian can't escape because he's a minor. By the very layout of Miraculous' story Chat Noir should be Adrien's last escape into freedom and he SHOULD be allowed to run away to his partner Ladybug for safety. Abused and trapped children/teenagers absolutely run away if that's all they have left, and doing so as anonymous Chat Noir is by the very layout of the story the only way Adrien could when shit goes down like this... but the Ladynoir development actually tells me that under no circumstances would Adrien now EVER ask her for anything no matter how much he should and how much she would want him to do it. Because that literally want he learned in "Risk" when he brought up the secret identities again. He did that for a very logical reason, because he was being send away and then he would just be.. gone. But the only thing the episode cared about is that Adrien "learns" that apparently under no circumstances in all of reality is him asking for a reveal justifiable because the only way Chat Noir can exist in her leadership and team is if his entire civilian life gets to be inherently insignificant so she doesn't have to think about it or worry.

That was the biggest damage season 4 did to Ladynoir and it was literally one of the worst developments you could have for a partnership in a story like this when Chat Noir is literally Hawkmoth’s SON! And season 5 barely did a thing to undo this damage, where is this supposed to end?

Even if you wanna disregard all of Chat Noirs rights as a person of his own to... matter in this partnership, explain to me how does Marinette/Ladybug benefit from him having gotten THIS beaten into his head? What good is he for her when he's gone and unwilling to ask for help?

LADYBUG should have become his safe haven he can escape to because neither Nathalie nor Civilian Marinette or any other civilian character is going to be able to do shit here against Gabriel.)

And this is just.. pretty awful for this partnership and romantic couple. In the big picture we are seemingly leading up to right now, no individual identity in teh love square is going to benefit from any of this in the end, no matter how good or passabel it may seem in a vacuum.

Unless of course the last episodes of season 5 are going to pull a whole Miracle and suddenly fix this but I would be genuinely surprised because in over 4 and a half seasons nothing about Miraculous' narrative ever lead up to anything else. Barely anything about the hopeless situation of the season 4 finale has changed judging by the whole "Adrien leaves Paris" plot coming back which everybody is STILL helpless against. apparently we are just elaborating on it now in detail explaining WHY it was so bad in the first place. And that means taht everything fucked up about the last 5 episodes of season 4 is most likely coming back too because legit barely anything was actually taken care of and it's all starting all over again!

I can't be the only one who sees that we are still doing circles in a dead end?? How is any of this supposed to be good in more than just the shortsighted "now" sense? What "solution" is this supposed to lead up to anymore, it feels like we are doing everything upside down!

Codependency in relationship is bad but people is okay if it's the love square and I don't understand why it's ok

Codependency in real relationships is bad, and I can see why it can be off-putting to people when the Love Square falls into it. But it's a very appealing trope to watch and read, with the comfort fantasy it fulfills of being able to be vulnerable with another person and having complete faith that they'll help you as best you can, and that you'll do the same with them. That these two can rely on each other, even when everything else is breaking around them.

[familyagrestefanblog]

Sorry, but I need to get this off my chest for a second.

Rewatching older episodes after the s5 finale really stings in the sense that this show has never ever even pretended like Chat Noir and Mayura would in the end get out of their partnerships with Ladybug and Hawkmoth okay and by their sides. The way Adrien and Nathalie ended up in the s5 finale and them not making it to the final battle was in every way possible predictable just from both their partnership dynamics alone and their fates were sealed with and by the time of "Kuro Neko"

I don't have it in me anymore to pretend like Chat Noir in Ladynoir and Mayura in Hawkura (?) weren't from the very start til the very end always and consistently human sacrifice coded for Ladybug and Hawkmoth which is exactly what they ended up being so the two heads of the war can brawl it out alone.

I'm not tagging this as salt, this is just objectively what Chat Noir's and Mayura's purposes in the partnerships have always been and there is no going around that. I can't tell you how much I wished that wasn't the case.

[fandomofone]

DMs and fanfic and identity reveals, OH MY!

I'm so excited to finally share a new fic I've been working on with @kuromori4 for @mlbigbang2024 !!

On Good Author-ity is a collab (about a collab!) that features loads of flirty late-night DMs, two unwitting partnerships and three separate reveals. Join Adrien & Marinette as miscommunication abounds and (identity) shenanigans ensue- and they get to know one another far more intimately than they ever expected.

Rating: M (Mature)

Check out the summary and Adrien's teaser below! (And be sure to visit @kuromori4 's profile for Marinette's!)

See you in January! 😉

Summary:

When the Ladyblog debuts a new fanfiction feature, Marinette wants nothing to do with it… until an unlikely recommendation piques her curiosity. She discovers— much to her dismay— that fans are writing salacious, and frankly, quite shocking things about Ladybug and Chat Noir! Scandalized, she’s ready to write fanfiction off for good, until she receives a link to a fic that’s too tempting to resist— leading her to #1LadyFan, a surprisingly good author that writes convincing romance, and seems to have an alarming amount of insight on the duo’s dynamic that isn’t public knowledge. Flustered, irritated, and admittedly a little intrigued, Marinette creates the username PolkaDotPrincess and contacts the author to offer constructive criticism on what she considers to be glaring inaccuracies. 

Meanwhile, Adrien is thrilled to learn that his Ladynoir fanfiction is gaining popularity, and over the moon when a reader reaches out. After weeks of increasingly flirty late-night conversations with his mysterious online friend, Adrien notices that she seems to know an awful lot about Ladybug and Chat Noir. Eager to learn more about her, he puts her critique to the test and challenges her to join him in a collaborative effort to write a more ‘realistic’ romance featuring Paris’ favorite superheroes.

Snippet:

Adrien sat down in his seat, ignoring Alya and Nino’s cutesy love play in favor of his coffee, when he heard the group of girls behind him exclaim, “Ooooooh!” in unison. Turning around, he caught Rose’s eye as she wailed, “He’s soooo romantic!” Amused, he hitched a thumb over his shoulder and asked Alya, “What are they looking at?” “New Ladynoir fic just dropped late last night. I’ve already read it twice myself. It is capital H- Hot.” Her voice, and her eyebrows, climbed suggestively on the last word as she punctuated her statement with a sharp nod. “Different from the rest too.” “What do you mean?” Adrien asked casually, not conceited enough to actually believe that she might be talking about his story. Still, the wayward thought crept into his head- he had posted his story in the wee hours. “Hot, Agreste. Steamy. Smoking. Sex-y.” She enunciated both syllables as if Adrien was a small child. “Surely you know what that means.” Alya arched one eyebrow, pinning him with a knowing look. His cheeks pinked up at both the words and her mockery; he couldn't help it. “I know what sexy is, thank you very much,” he muttered. “Do you think I live under a rock?” Alya’s eyebrows climbed, and she and Nino exchanged an amused look between them. “Don't answer that,” he grumbled, annoyed that it was even slightly true. “I meant, what do you mean by ‘different from the rest’?” “I meant that I hope Ladybug doesn't know who #1Ladyfan is, or she's probably gonna be knocking their door down when she gets her hands on it.” Adrien coughed, choking on air as he sat up straighter at the mention of his pen name. She was talking about his fic! And she thought it was sexy!! And the other girls in the class were into it too!!! He was glad his cheeks were still slightly pink from earlier because he could feel them heating up again. He smiled to himself as he turned back around to face the front, his day already looking up.

All the thanks to my co-author, @kuromori4, for taking on this insane project with me, and the artists joining us on this crazy journey, @ayekasong and @eclipsesmoonshine14 . Big thanks also to the entire @mlbigbang2024 discord server- y'all have been super helpful every step along the way, and been even more fun to hang out with!!

[kuromori4]

FIC-CEPTION!

I'm so pleased to finally tease this collaboration between @fandomofone and I for this year's @mlbigbang2024

Our collaborative fic (About a collaborative fic!) is jam-packed full of flirty late-night DMs between two anonymous penpals who get to know each other far more intimately than they ever expected! Miscommunications pave the way for delicious identity shenanigans that take you on a wild ride with two unwitting partnerships and three different reveals!

Rated: M (Mature)

Check out the summary and teaser for Marinette below! (And be sure to visit @fandomofone's profile for Adrien's!)

Summary:

When the Ladyblog debuts a new fanfiction feature, Marinette wants nothing to do with it… until an unlikely recommendation piques her curiosity. She discovers— much to her dismay— that fans are writing salacious, and frankly, quite shocking things about Ladybug and Chat Noir!  Scandalized, she’s ready to write fanfiction off for good, until she receives a link to a fic that’s too tempting to resist— leading her to #1LadyFan, a surprisingly good author that writes convincing romance, and seems to have an alarming amount of insight on the duo’s dynamic that isn’t public knowledge.  Flustered, irritated, and admittedly a little intrigued, Marinette creates the username PolkaDotPrincess and contacts the author to offer constructive criticism on what she considers to be glaring inaccuracies. Meanwhile, Adrien is thrilled to learn that his Ladynoir fanfiction is gaining popularity, and over the moon when a reader reaches out. After weeks of increasingly flirty late-night conversations with his mysterious online friend, Adrien notices that she seems to know an awful lot about Ladybug and Chat Noir. Eager to learn more about her, he puts her critique to the test and challenges her to join him in a collaborative effort to write a more ‘realistic’ romance featuring Paris’ favorite superheroes.

Teaser:

Marinette sat perched on the edge of her chaise in her pajamas, staring absently across the room at her computer as its Adrien-themed screensaver played across the screen. She squeezed the ends of her wet hair with the towel draped around her shoulders, soaking up the water that dripped down her neck.  She’d thought that maybe a nice hot shower would help take her mind off of the intrusive thoughts that had been plaguing her all day. Instead, all that the hot shower had done for her was to conjure up some equally hot images in her mind…  Adrien Agreste, casually lounging on his bed in only slippers and a bathrobe, wearing reading glasses (for some entirely inexplicable reason, as his vision was perfect, like him), with a laptop balanced on his lap. His vibrant green eyes were half-lidded as if in a trance, so deeply absorbed as he was in his reading…  Marinette stood up abruptly, her damp towel dropping to the chaise. Suddenly, it had become all too clear to her that— Adrien reads fanfiction. She stiffly marched the three paces toward her desk, her head swimming as she processed this morning’s shocking revelations. It's not that big of a deal, really. It’s just that— Adrien reads FANFICTION. And not just any fanfiction, but LadyNoir fanfiction! Okay, maybe it’s a bit of a big deal, because she couldn’t help but make the connection that— Adrien reads fanfiction about her! Marinette plopped into her desk chair, swiveling around to face her suddenly intimidating computer screen.  Sure, there was no way that Adrien could know he was reading about her, but the truth of the matter is that she is Ladybug! So if Adrien was spending his nights reading fanfiction, then that meant— Adrien reads fanfiction about her… being with another man!! She groaned loudly, her forehead falling onto the keyboard with a series of clacks.  Oh, this is just too cruel.

Neverending thanks to my co-author @fandomofone for putting up with me, and the artists on this project, @eclipsesmoonshine14 and @ayekasong And to everyone in the @mlbigbang2024 Discord server who have made this entire event a blast!

[theerurishipper]

I'm still so disappointed how season 4 handled Ladynoir and just settled it on "Ladybug owes Chat nothing and can't be asked to uphold basic respect when it doesn't benefit her or she just doesn't want to"

Like Wishmaker. There was no reason for the show to "settle" the problem of how badly Adrien's home life affects him in this particular akuma and makes him extra vulnerable by going "Chat has to learn that his life doesn't matter in akumas". The akuma very obviously hit home for him and he was also open to her about how much him not remembering any childhood dream bothers him but all the show episode did was having Ladybug go "I bet you just forgot, it doesn't matter because I said so <3 now go and stay all alone in hand-to-hand combat with the akuma since I decided that u have no problems in your life <3"

The entire season the excuse is either "Ladybug is the leader not his nanny" or "he's not telling her it's bothering him!" but here we had an episode where all Marinette had to do was for once listen to what he's saying and not just tell Chat Noir his problem doesn't exist and he has to just stop behaving like there is one because she doesn't like the thought of Chat having a life at all apparently.

I see no purpose in sugarcoating it. That was shit leadership once again only concerned about what she wants and then abandoning Chat on the battle field, after just telling him his problem doesn't exist and for her the topic is over. It's so frustrating that the show never ever went back to fixing that. It's just settled as her being flawless because she smiled and him being awful and having to learn the lesson to never ever bother Ladybug again with his life.

Those are just awful messages for leadership and partnership. Marinette doesn't need to know that Chat has an abusive home life to just listen for once in this damn partnership. He was more than open about how much it was bothering him, she was just written to disregard him anyway bc "she doesn't know"

Well, she certainly never tried listening either or acting like Chat exists at all as a civilian person the moment it requires effort or adjustments not being made for HER comfort.

How hard it is to not have Ladybug disregard everything about Chat Noir all the time and not have the show then claim it's GOOD FEMINIST leadership and can't be criticized bc girl?

You're so right anon. Honestly, I didn't actually mind Wishmaker on its own all too much. You know, it's understandable that Ladybug wouldn't be able to pick up on the fact that Chat Noir is being really vulnerable right now, and she's just trying to tease him/banter with him. For that reason, I didn't think too much of that scene before. I was very slightly uneasy about the way she just did not listen to him and take his concerns seriously, but I really did think it was unfair to blame her for not being able to pick up on his insecurities and to blame her for not being able to immediately offer him support. And I still do think that, but only to a little extent. Way, way less than when I first watched the episode.

Because I watched her unintentionally make light of Adrien's struggle in hopes that the show would, at some point in the future, have her actually understand and support him in a meaningful way. I felt like judging her based on this one scene where it's quite understandable that she wasn't able to support him the way he needs wasn't reasonable. But after the bullshit of the Season 5 finale, I've since become a lot less charitable to that scene. Because that scene doesn't seem like it was meant to show us that Ladybug didn't understand Chat Noir and that she would soon like I had originally assumed. That's literally just their whole dynamic now. Episodes like Kuro Neko which had Adrien learn not to inconvenience Ladybug with his emotions retroactively make that scene in Wishmaker seem bad. Because it pretty much confirms that all Adrien can ever expect in terms of emotional support from Ladybug is a few quips about him overreacting and another round of her not truly trying to listen to him, i.e., what happened in Wishmaker.

And I get that Adrien isn't open about his struggles. I do get that it is unfair to expect Marinette to instantly know exactly what he's going through if he doesn't vocalize it. But the fact remains that a part of the reason he isn't communicating with her is because she really has become more unapproachable. She's flipping out, she's having others outside of their duo learn things he doesn't get to know... doesn't paint a picture of someone who he might want to share his struggles with.

And honestly, she doesn't consider him much at all, not if it inconveniences her. All these elaborate plans to protect herself from Shadow Moth, and not a thought spared to Chat Noir. A whole plan to trick him into revealing his identity, not a thought spared to Chat Noir. All the secrets and lies, not a thought spared to Chat Noir. I get it, she's stressed and tired and traumatized, and I sympathize, but it's still poor leadership. Like, the entire end to the Ladynoir conflict of Season 4 happened by Adrien learning that he shouldn't bother her by asking for help and that he's not allowed to do so.

Honestly, he does so much emotional labor for her, and she barely returns the favor. If he has an issue, it's an inconvenience for her. It's so unequal at this point, and Season 5 only made it worse. Whenever Adrien needs something in the way of emotional support from Marinette, she is never made to give it to him. For a damning example, we spend Destruction, the episode where Adrien is so horrified about Cataclysming Monarch dealing with how awful Marinette feels about that having happened. She is never available to support him the way he does for her. He's just left to deal with his issues on his own, and if something goes wrong, then fuck him I guess, because Ladybug doesn't deserve to be inconvenienced by considering the safety and well-being of her supposed partner.

I'm sorry if this seems too harsh. I'm sorry if this seems like I'm being too nitpicky or too critical. At some point, I probably would have said this was too harsh too. But damn it, they really just went ahead and said that Adrien doesn't matter, and I have a lot of thoughts on that, none of which are good.

Thank you for your ask!

[yeet-noir]

Ladybug VS Chat Noir: You Don't Have to Choose Sides

I don't know if this would be a hot take or not, but I seen many people express concerns about the Ladynoir conflict that is coming to light. Which of course we are in for some angsty times, but with that comes with people being upset/angry at other people in terms of how they feel about the situation and I just wanted to say I do not think the Ladynoir conflict is going to be so cut and dry, black and white, right vs wrong.

What I mean is Ladybug isn't the bad guy in the situation and neither is Chat Noir, but also they both are. Ladybug isn't purposely leaving Chat Noir in the dust, but she also is. Rena Rouge being apart of the team full-time isn't bad, but it also is. Chat Noir being jealous isn't wrong, but it also is. Two opposite statements can coexist and both be correct, but those opposite statements both can be met with fair criticism.

Ladybug is doing everything she can to learn her new role, which started with her isolating herself because she was overwhelmed which lead to a mental breakdown. Confiding in Alya was not thought out, but it felt right in the moment and has proven to be good for Marinette's emotional state. Marinette doesn't need to feel alone in being Ladybug, but at the same time Chat Noir offered her comfort and gave himself as somebody to confide in because he has been a hero for as long as she has in which she denied.

Now all of a sudden Rena Rouge is appearing more and fulfilling a need of Ladybug that she previously denied to Chat Noir. And on top of that involving Rena Rouge in guardianship stuff something Chat Noir has been excluded from in the past by Master Fu which lead him in attempting to denounced being Chat Noir. Chat Noir has every right to be upset and feel excluded. He is now taking a backseat in the hero group while Ladybug has at all times access to other miraculous to give to other people. From his perspective it is easy to see why he would feel unwanted and unneeded. Chat Noir is right for being upset about what is going on.

Ladybug however, is the only one to know about Chat Blanc. To her knowledge, Chat Blanc happened because she knew who he was and he knew who she was. Chat Blanc destroyed the world and with that destroyed Ladybug the only person who could undo what he did. She can't let that happen again and she can't know why it happened in the first place.

Also, Chat Noir miraculous is very important, if she accidentally jeopardized his identity she would have to consider taking his miraculous away. This would be because Shadowmoth is after it, and of course she doesn't want to loose the other miraculous, but if something happened to them it would not pose as much as a threat if stolen. Perhaps to her, shielding Chat Noir makes sense because of his strengths and his roles are vital to the team and to her. She is protecting him from the consequences of knowing each others identities which could lead to unideal outcomes such as needing a new Cat holder. She already expressed multiple times that the idea of loosing him hurts her when he sacrifices himself and the time he renounced being Chat Noir.

So both Ladybug and Chat Noir are harboring ideas and feelings about their current situation, but the are polar opposites. Ladybug wants to protect Chat Noir therefore is leaving him out of what she views as dangerous. Chat Noir wants a strong partnership with Ladybug just the "two of them against the world", but instead is being sidelined and isolated.

The reason this is causing conflict is because both of them are not communicating this to the other and nothing will change until both of them do. Ladybug can't keep denying Chat Noir his wishes, but Chat Noir wishes can't all be granted by Ladybug. It is a dangerous game they play. They both are right and they both are wrong, but neither feelings are more valid than the other.

[sandradoodles]

I think it would be Nice if season 5 showed us Chat Noir tearing into Su-Han for being a terrible boss-guardian and not giving Ladybug any real support or training. The poor girl got thrown into this situation with no preparation whatsoever and instead of helping her this guy just shows up to criticize every so often and then (literally) bounce.

If this happened to lead to an episode of Su-Han guiding ladynoir through a series of ancient miraculous trust falls to strengthen their partnership then I SUPPOSE that would be fine too.

[purrincess-chat]

Okay, so I know I said I wasn't gonna comment, and I'm not getting into the discourse, idc, everyone shut up for a minute because I have ideas.

Canon would probably never, but I posted my akumabug LadyNoir set up yesterday, and I've got another one after this episode, so just hear me out:

Feel whatever way you wanna feel about he-whom-I've-forgotten finding out, but as I've sat and pondered what the overall fucking message is here for Marinette after all of these microbetrayals from her friends this season coupled with the building tension between Chat and Ladybug, I've realized that things are not looking great for Marinette. If all of these things came to a head. If she found out that the people she trusted lied, after everything she has been juggling, with how fragile her mental state is rn, she would break. And likely not trust anyone.

So, scenario, say Chat finally snaps at her after a battle and reveals that he doesn't feel included or needed anymore, like they're no longer partners, and runs off. Ladybug on her way home catches Nino welcoming Rena Furtive home on her balcony and is like she didn't tell Nino what we agreed! But she tries to give her bff the benefit of the doubt because that's her mans. He-whom-I've-forgotten notices her being a little sullen at a group hang later and approaches her to talk. She admits that someone she cares about told her recently that he feels like she's shutting him out, and now she's discovered that someone she thought she could trust lied to her. HWIF is like wow oof. That's a shame. Marinette looks up at him and is like "you'd never lie to me, right?" And he's like shit. So, he decides to tell her the truth finally, and Marinette is appalled that he lied to her and has been putting her at risk unknowingly all this time. He tries to apologize, but she transforms and storms off, hurt and betrayed.

Ding dong, guess who's ready to party? It's Shadowmoth, bitches. And boy is it his lucky day. All of Ladybug's most trusted allies failing her all at once. It's akumabug time.

When Alya discovers that Ladybug has been akumatized, she's like ah, fuck, and rushes to Marinette's house to get the Miracle Box, but it's already gone. Alya is like FUCK!

HWIF sees akumabug and is like ah shit, and runs to Adrien. Adrien is also sulking in his room, and HWIF is like, broski, my dude, my guy, Ladybug needs you. I fucked up and found out who you both are and didn't say anything, and now she's an akuma. Adrien asks why Viperion doesn't just go save her then. They don't need him, and HWIF is like, you fool. You two are made for each other, and she needs you more than ever. Please, do the thing. Adrien is like how made for each other? "You love Ladybug. She loves Adrien." Adrien is like okay, that's fair. Let's go get this bug.

Anyway, Ladybug's power can turn the Miraculouses in the Miracle Box evil, so when she hands them out, the users fall under her command, so when Chat and Rena show up, they're like oh fuck.

Chat tells Rena to handle the minions, he will try to break through to Ladybug. Rena singles out Carapace first, dodging through his attacks and appealing to Nino. Vesperia and Ryuko show up to back him up, but Carapace encases himself and Rena inside a shelter to talk. Rena is able to break through to him, and he agrees to help. Together they defeat Ryuko by hitting her with Vesperia's venom, and swiping both of their Miraculouses. Cat don't make your stupid beeatrix pun

Anyway, Rena fuses the fox and the bee and Carapace fuses the turtle and the dragon. Next they take on, Roi Singe and Pegase with a tad bit more ease, shoving both of them through Pegase's portal, then hitting Pegase with Roi Singe's banana and trapping them there.

Next they have to fight Pigella and Tigresse Pourpre, and I'm too lazy to think of a clever solution for them right now. But they both get defeated and become integral to the next phase of the plan.

Meanwhile, Chat has been fighting Akumabug, who is absolutely spiralling. She can't trust anyone, and the only way she can ensure her allies don't betray her again is to have total control over them. Chat tries to reason with her, but she points out that even he turned her back on her. Chat admits that he let his hurt feelings get the better of him, but that he felt like she was keeping secrets and shutting him out. He was just scared that "you and me against the world" was turning into "you and everybody else." He doesn't want to lose their partnership or her.

Akumabug subdues him, pinning him to the ground, and he surrenders. "Being Chat Noir by your side has meant the world to me, m'lady. Nothing will ever change that."

Beeatrix god dammit Cat and Dragonturtle arrive with Pigella and Tigresse Pourpre, now on their side, and Pigella and TP (that's actually an unfortunate abbreviation I've just discovered) use their powers to show Ladybug what her heart really wants and convince her to give in. Ladybug looks around at all of her friends and allies there to fight for her, and breaks loose of Shadowmoth's influence. Rena apologizes for not being honest with her after Ladybug trusted her. She gives back the bee as well as the fox and says that maybe Ladybug was wrong to trust her. Ladybug forgives her and says that secrets are hard to keep, all of this is proof of that. From now on, they'll be more honest with each other, including her and Chat Noir. She apologizes to him for keeping him in the dark, and Chat apologizes for quitting on her when she needed him most. Just because their team has grown, doesn't mean they have to trust each other any less.

Shadowmoth is like fucking hell, so he goes to fight them himself and try to at least steal the Miracle Box, but Ladybug and friends have all regrouped and recharged, and it's time for them to open a can of whoop ass on Shadowmoth once and for all.

Anyway, that's the story about how Shadowmoth gets his ass handed to him by a group of teenage furries, and everyone apologizes for their mistakes. But most importantly, Gabe goes to jail, and Nino adopts Adrien.

I will not be taking questions or criticism at this time. Fuck off and write your own angsty scenario with a happy ending.

[critical-thinking-is-mandatory]

alya and the kiss conundrum

just a little bit of alya doing some critical thinking about the ladynoir kiss post-oblivio. sugar fic. enjoy :)

It was late. Very late. The digital clock on Alya’s computer ticked past 12:42 AM, but she was still awake, eyes on the picture of LadyNoir kissing from earlier today. Alya was exhausted from the ordeal of being akumatised, but something about the picture and the heroes’ reaction...had kept her awake.

Alya gnawed on her bottom lip, running through the afternoon’s events in her mind. She’d come to beside Nino, disoriented and with weak knees, just in time to see Ladybug and Chat Noir kissing. Kissing! Alya had been delighted and immediately started taking pictures, the best of which she’d posted to the LadyBlog. And then…Ladybug pulled away enough to cast her Miraculous Ladybug, magical little ladybugs swirled over the tower and…over Ladybug and Chat Noir where they stood cuddling…and jumped apart.

Alya gnawed her lip some more. That was…kind of odd. It hadn’t really registered at the time, but Alya had then watched the Oblivio fight on the news and Chat Noir and Ladybug had both been hit by whatever power Oblivio had. Alya had tried to find out what power Oblivio had, but it wasn’t all that clear as only the people within the tower had been affected.

And when Alya showed them the picture of the kiss…Chat Noir had been delighted, big-eyed and teeth in a blinding grin but Ladybug…looked like someone had shoved a rotten sock under her nose.

Alya had shrugged it off at the time, posting a small gallery of photos to the LadyBlog before she and Nino even left the building. But something Nino said as they left the building had been bouncing around her brain all night.

“Ladybug really doesn’t seem to like Chat Noir calling them a couple.”

And he was right. Alya replayed the moment over again in her mind. Ladybug was clearly annoyed and frustrated by Chat’s behaviour and by the looks of it, it was a regular occurrence. Even the news footage from the Oblivio fight picked up Ladybug snapping at Chat Noir for calling them a couple.

Alya had always thought Chat and Ladybug’s partnership was romantic, and yeah, maybe she got a little swept up in the romance of masks and hidden identities and the soulmate theory one of her early followers made...but Alya didn’t think she was blind.

Alya didn’t think she’d ignore or miss the signs of Ladybug’s discomfort. Alya always thought Ladybug was happy and receptive to Chat Noir’s...advances. But Alya was starting to see their relationship in a different light, something that bore an uncomfortable resemblance to Adrien and Chloe’s relationship.

Alya glanced at her laptop’s clock. 12:45 AM. Plenty of time for her write up a new piece for the LadyBlog, an...accompaniment of sorts, to the LadyNoir kissing picture. An expose really, on how Chat Noir’s behaviour with Ladybug is really crossing a line.

[stuff-that-makes-me-tired]

After lots of responses and reblogs I decided to make an analysis of the most popular ships on this fandom and now I understand. Everything makes sense. I can easily make a easy description of what each ship means and I won't take criticism cause I know deep down y'all know I'm right

So, Marichat, Maridami and Chlomari (yes, apparently it's a thing) have the common trope of badxsweety or something similar BUT THERE'S IMPORTANT DIFFERENCES!

Marichat: it isn't exactly about the sin, no, it's about the easy friendship between hero and "civilian", where the hero can rely emotionally on someone who understands him (in this case she understands him very well). You get the flirty, badboy-ish vibe from Chat and the cute pie loving person from Mari and the fact that he would 100% surely murder/die to protect her.

Maridami/Maribat: is also about someone who can rely emotionally on the other person, but mostly about a guy that is super broody and angry, super badboy, yet gets soft and sweet for a girl that is cute and optimistic. The catch is that he doesn't need to die/murder to protect her cause he knows she is badass enough to protect herself, so he will primarily leave her to do her thing but if necessary he will die/murder for her.

(I bet Mari would get him to shower and eat properly instead of just patrolling all the time, cause she's all about responsibility but also puts everyone's well being first. She would absolutely just beat him into taking care of himself)

Chlomari: is for the people that believe that inside someone bitter there is a sweet person that just needs help to come out. Mari is the one that believes in that until the end and will do everything to bring the good out of Chloe. So Chloe gets soft for Mari but will cut everyone else if she so desires. (Also enemies to friends to lovers EASY)

What I got was that a lot of people in this fandom really enjoy the "badboy redeeming qualities" trope.

The rest of the ships kinda fall off that trail like:

NatanaelxMarinette: artists that support each other and are cute together (just super cute, who would judge?)

Adrinette: cute clumsy and relatable highschool sweetheart story (lots of highschool romance stories like this)

Lukanette: older boy helps younger girl be more confident and gives her full support (like the best friend's brother trope)

Ninnette: almost the same as adrinette but reversed (I actually really enjoy this ship, cause Nino is a super chill and funny dude and I could see Mari being happy with that)

Ladynoir: IT'S ABOUT THE PARTNERSHIP, THE TRUST IN THE BATTLEFIELD, WHO WOULDN'T UNDERSTAND IT?!

(I broke with this ep I swear)

Ladrien: people who really ship Clois (clarkxlois), but also people who like the idea of a hero showing a soft and not so hero-like side to ONE person

KimxMarinette: just plain old childhood friends to lovers and I can't judge

[familyagrestefanblog]

Clarification I definitely should have done ever since season 4 and the Ladynoir conflict started escalating, but hey, let's just get it out:

There are reasons why I'm harping down so badly on Miraculous' Girlboss feminism and defend Adrien as much as I do.

To get the feminist (in-universe) explaination out of the way first:

I would be lying if I said that I like the direction the show has taken Marinette's character and the story in general. But regarding her specifically I simply have to say that most of my problems with her are how she is written as Ladybug, Guardian, and especially leader & partner. Not in her civilian self. Hence why you won't find that alot on my blog, only when it contributes to the overarching double standards problem from s4 I take issue with.

I simply cant deny it, Ladybug is a kind of leader I just came to not be able to respect alot anymore in how she operates most things bc she doesn't really ever look passed how things look & stand for herself, and what SHE needs & wants. Marinette is a very low empathy person in the sense that she struggles putting herself in other people's positions, or remembers considering that at all.

But that's not the reason why I can't respect her as leader. I have ADD, that would be really hypocritical of me.

What leaves me unable to respect her as leader though (& honestly kinda even wanting Alya to take her position) is the fact that the show doesn't see much wrong with Maribug doing that.

They don't properly depict this as flawed leadership she actually NEEDS to grow out of by making up for her shortcomings by, for example, making other people her official co-leaders. Instead the show since s4 (& kinda s3) will proceed to put it's feminist foot down if Maribug isn't actually in the end 100% correct and "totally girlboss justified" in any given case - with CN & authorities specifically - no matter the context. Ergo she's barely ever truly improving her weakpoints in partnership skills for example & continues doing the same mistakes over n over.

like she genuinely would benefit from having Chat Noir as her co-leader too, not just Rena Rouge. But no. The neurodivergend low-empathy girl can't have a high-empathy boy co-leader bc apparently thats misogynistic now, huh ?

Again, I have ADD and I'm also a woman. In fact, I actually have alot in common with Maribug (hence why it hurt so much once s4 took her away from me), so forgive me when I still say: I am NOT going to lower my standards of my believe that neither of those aspects get to be an excuse on everyone else's expense regarding LEADERSHIP (which I do also am in the position of in my life).

And I repeat: LEADERSHIP. Not Marinette herself as a person necessarily & esp not her civilian life.

People always say that her critics wouldn't be so hard on her if she were a man, but I strongly disagree. In my experience, if Marinette were a boy people would actually draw a line nowadays and call out that Mariano is too stuck in his own head to be a good leader (& partner). And maybe even demand that he shouldn't be in that position anymore either at all or until he's in a better head space.

Bc with male characters people are actually drawing lines now in important factors when it comes to power & the accountability coming with it, bc in the end being in change means it ain't about you

Hence why e. g. Steve Rogers (Captain America) was then a fucking fugitive from the law when shit got real in the MCU. They had to do that bc of his leadership morality not being able to exist well within a corrupted & complex law system under fire and attack. My man's an amazing battle leader, but the MCU did VERY well leaving taking care of all kinds of social & political matters to Tony Stark. This kind of nuance ain't Steve's strength. Marinette & Steve are actually a EXTREMELY similar type of leader and it's interesting that I don't exactly vibe with him too much either in that regard, but like him as person the way I did Marinette. So for me it's definitely an issue with their type of leadership.

But the mainstream female leader characters are often still "too female" to get held to the same regular standards bc telling a female leader character in a complicated and not entirely beneficial situation & position 'yeah, it's sucks but you're not the center of the universe'' is now more often than not still "too mean/ sexist"

again, Steve was made an outlaw for a reason and you can bet if he had been a Stephanie people would have made all her struggles about sexism & called the 'outlaw leader' route after Civil War misogyny, merely bc "society doesnt respect women". This is whats happening with Maribug & it clashes with her leadership style.

Hence why there AREN'T ALOT of mainstream female leader characters. And if we get some, most of them are narratively defined by how powerful & in control they are for THEIR OWN BENEFIT and it being depicted as 100% right & just in general (like with Marinette) which goes against what a normal leader should be, so alot of people don't like them (ignoring the actual sexist people for a sec)

The first Wonder Woman movie for example was so well-received for a reason. They did it RIGHT (& may I please also recommend Wakanda Forever? Fuck, that movie was GOOD)

--

But yes, it's notably how Maribug treats Chat, who is supposed to be her partner and friend, that I take alot of issues with.

And yes, I would say the same if LB were male and CN female. Ladynoir is so rooted in toxic femininity that this "partnership" (or just the entire LS) the way it is could NOT exist today in gender bend. S4 and the s5 finale in particular are unthinkable in gender bend and they sold it as "justified female empowerment" & "unparalleled loving treatment" from Ladybug's side Chat Noir needed to learn to be GRATEFUL for.

All while, and I will never stop stressing this: the show has never stopped writing Marinette to treat Chat Noir as if he basically just spawns into existence once he puts on the mask. He's HALF a human being. Even once she falls in love with him in s5.

This is the fundamental and deep seeded problem of where my issues come from here. It never stands in question if Adrien views Marinette and Ladybug as full human beings, but the other way around that very much is the case. In whatever way it's depicted. Yes this is a line I draw, especially because of the whole Sentihuman thing.

I personally am alot more like Adrien regarding Friendship and partnership (or what his character initially started out). They are heavy & meaningful topics for me. So seeing Marinette being utilized to girlboss all that into the ground with Chat Noir, esp in s4, while she apparently barely ever even noticed anything wrong with how she treats him in the first place as she literally replaced him with Alya/ Rena in everything but name

cause buring him under a wall of secrets & lies meant she can still 100% benefit from his eternal devotion by letting him believe she's too alone to be a partner anymore AT ALL. (Kuro Neko onwards and then NEVER stopped letting him think she's just as alone as he is. NEVER. She's still doing it in s5 while leaving him 100% isolated which was then his demise in the s5 finale.)

and gives Alya the deluxe partnership entirely on his expense, while barely ever sparing him even the most basic thought in anything; & by "Risk" then literally having them switch status. Rena is her actual partner she fully treats that way and he's merely her favorite temp hero with no rights, which Rena was previously.

And the only reason why Chat was treated with something resembling to fairness or dignity again in season 5 (& finally wasn't a rag doll for her every little mood anymore...) was because Maribug plainly had no other choice and had her team & position of power taken away by force while Alya renounced for her own safety. And yet she's still treating him as half a human being even by the end of S5. AFTER her character development. He's Chat Noir and that's where his existence ends in her leadership & friendship. CN and Alya in s5 are literally 2 halves of ONE PARTNER.

All that was painful to watch to say the least. Bc it's imo honestly a disgrace to friendship and partnership. I can't put into words how ashamed I would be of myself if I treated someone the way Marinette treats Chat Noir (again, HALF A HUMAN BEING).

Much less a friend I claim to love dearly and don't want to loose (another thing the MCU did better regarding Steve's fall-out with Tony over Bucky... I should really make that comparison post why Steve works for me & Marinette doesnt)

Just the mere fact that Marinette in "Elation" even told Chat "It doesn't matter who's underneath your mask" is honestly outrageous.

Because thats simply what it is for me. If s4 & 5 Marinette were portrayed from a similar morality angle to Emonette in the Paris special I would have much less issues with her. Cause thats ironically an angle female characters barely get & is mostly used to redeem the broken bad boys with a hidden heart of gold™.

Double irony: s1-s3 actually DID put civilian Marinette often into that angle, hence why I really liked her, but then s4 suddenly said "well, her methods & actions really dont matter. She's wrong, but actually not really; ergo she should get rewarded in the end. Always. But with a few exceptions. Here n there she loses to claim otherwise. But actually the world just needs to learn how right & amazing she is."

She makes countless mistakes but often either doesn't really learn from them anymore or they just don't "count" bc that's 'what makes her quirky & loveable', so having any issues with her now means you hate women. And she's a very flawed leader but actually never did anything wrong. Ever. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

I will be VERY blunt now: The moment you put a female character into the leader role the FEMALE aspect is supposed to be of secondary importance. And a leader, by the nature of the position, ALWAYS has to be questioned morally wise in my opinion bc of the fatal blindspots that will automatically occur in every leadership.

And it happened here too: Chat Noir's treatment. But they demanded that her being the (female) leader means she's OWED to treat him badly & gets to keep him as blindspot on HIS expense bc she doesn't like thinking about him existing as civilian person.

A leader is ALWAYS somebody who is NOT going to sit well with everybody regarding their approach. That's a normal instinct, and in fact it would be highly dangerous if that wouldnt happen at all. So if I, or other people, don't respect her as one that simply means she has an opposition the way every leader has & is being held to normal standards a leader should be held to, regardless of gender.

Sorry if you think thats sexist, but in my opinion that's a YOU problem. I personally respect female leaders too much to not acknowledge them as anything else but the potential threats they are. The same way I do with male leaders.

You're leader first, woman second. If you can't handle that get out of the leadership position (yes, oc that also applies the other way around). Feminism was about making sure that women cant be excluded from e. g. position of power just bc we're female. The goal wasn't to have yet another group of people stomp their foots, now claiming that they are OWED power once they wanna have it to feel powerful. But that's what Marinette was used to teach an entire generation of children, especially girls.

The last thing you will EVER get me to do is accept that I should be holding women - specifically for equality, female empowerment and leadership - to LOWER (moral) standards as I would the men in her position.

Buddy, I am NOT gonna fucking do that. Just the thought is pissing me tf off, and has ever since s4, cause it directly plays into the misogynistic thinking of:

"Women can't be given power, status or even too much focus as human beings because they're too irrational and immature to be able to then lay proper priorities & take rightful accountability for their shit like a man in power could; and not just scream and cry while playing the oppressed victim card the moment things don't work out & they aren't being given the special female treatment to let them mostly off the hook consequences wise.

Leading to everyone around them, especially the MEN, having to step up, do the work & basically babysit the women like children - while still having to give her the credit as person in charge - turning the women more or less into toddlers wearing a queen's crown"

Which, by all means, Adrichat in every dynamic of the love square by season 5, Gabriel at the end of "Recreation" and even Luka & Félix (& "thankfully" Alya too since s4) had to do for Maribug in alot of ways.

Pick up all of her slack in several major areas & catering to her while simultaneously having to still give most of the credit to HER or else they would be "mean to the female lead" (it's also telling that Alya is treated the best here, & goodness dont get me started on Su-Han...).

And with that out of the way, a few more meta reasons:

1) I'm NOT watching a damn documentary. Marinette is NOT a 14 year old, she doesnt exist & isnt based on a real person or story. She's a fictional main character and narrative tool, so forgive me for approaching this differently than a real life case.

and 2) in everything I watch I automatically look out for the narrative's blind spots and victims of the writings' favorites. I take it this seriously because this is career related for me.

Hence why I have barely ever liked a main character and ironically Marinette/ Ladybug was once one of the few exceptions (alongside Korra from Legend of Korra and Blitz from Helluva Boss)

Look, when I for example watch Helluva Boss or a Yugioh show I will automatically pay extra attention to how the female characters are being treated bc they are obviously treated worse by the writing and much more neglected and scapegoated than the male characters.

Meanwhile when I watch Miraculous and She-Ra, I do the opposite and pay attention to how the male characters are treated bc now they have the gender-biase against them.

And when I for example watch Avatar the last Airbender or Legend of Korra [and She-Ra, that show is great], then I actually get to be mostly fucking happy for once in my life jfc

I'm not going to elaborate too much more on this because I already named by my main point in the beginning: Chat Noir's - not even Adrien's, I mean CHAT NOIR - sometimes honestly awful treatment being the biggest moral and narrative blind spot of the entire show, and honestly where most of Maribug's problems then are also rooted in. Hence why I started focusing so much on Chat Noir since season 4. I look at the overall narrative and circumstances and look for the blind spots that needs to be solved to get to the core of the problem of this whole mess, to get effective results.

And that was and even by the end remained the fact that Adrichat is treated so badly, scapegoated in every possible way in the name of "feminism" and kicked out of the story where HE is at the core of most everything going on, just so the show can force Maribug into everything, make things about her that have no business being about her

Just so she can then be made to constandly turn around and scream, cry and stress about problems - and go about them in the least effective way - that wouldnt be there in the first place if she wasnt the main character of a story that isnt hers.

Mate, I dont know what to tell you here, but the fact that we are following Marinette Dupain-Cheng ,who has nothing to do with anything besides being the cool action girl, is and will always remain of the of core problems of this show. I WISHED that wasnt the case. But for the love of everything, Kagami would have made so much more sense as the female lead, but no.

Anyway, I will leave it at that now cause I already elaborate much further than I initially wanted to, I just wanted to finally have all this stated.

This Blog is not a full representation of how I lay priorities in (feminist) media in general, my view adjusts to the piece of media I'm watching.

And unfortunately, ever since season 4 Miraculous turned into a full blown extreme case and has only gotten better somewhat recently. So I will continue doing what I always do: focus on the fucking VICTIM whose bad treatment pulls down the whole show's quality, and here that's plain obviously Adrien Agreste/ Chat Noir.

And with all due respect: Die mad about it.

[acegreymanx]

The Edge of the Circle (9)

read it on: FF / AO3

The only time you need a miracle is when nothing else can save you.

Fandom: Miraculous Ladybug Pairing: General, LadyNoir Genre: general, mystery, supernatural Summary: Ladybug and Chat Noir face an unknown enemy. As heartache and danger close in, they will discover the true meaning of the Miraculous.

"Are you sick?" he blurted.

Ladybug’s face scrunched and she frowned up at him. Chat crouched in front of her, extending a hand towards her but not quite daring to touch. She stared at it dubiously - and a bit groggily - as the little shivers danced down her frame.

"Please," he said, flexing the fingers of the hand he extended.

With a soft huff that was enough like her usual self to calm some of his worry, she placed her wrist in his hand.

She definitely had a fever. Not even the insulating nature of their suits could hide the heat coming off her skin, or the tremors she was obviously trying to minimise. He ran his claws gently over her forearm to her elbow before bringing them back to clasp her hand.

"What are you doing out?" he asked, dismayed.

"How did you know?" she groused instead.

Chat didn't think she'd be interested in hearing about his recent bumbling attempt at socialising. "Lucky guess. I think there must be something going around."

Her tremors grew worse as she gave up trying to suppress them and he swallowed down the worry before it overcame him again. There were no Alyas or Ninos here to fix things this time. Well, technically Alya was in the room below, but he didn't think she'd appreciate him barging into her room at 1 a.m as Chat and demanding she heal Ladybug.

Then he rethought that and realised that actually she might like it, but that didn't make it any more of an option.

No, he had to do something and Chat—admittedly still less than knowledgeable about illness, but remembering how cold Marinette had felt and how much she'd appreciated his scarf—reluctantly left Ladybug to go and fetch the cosiest thing he could scrounge.

With autumn well and truly underway and winter already impatiently creeping up undercover of night, there unfortunately wasn't any laundry conveniently out on the lines to select from. But in a stroke of luck, someone had left some fuzzy throws on their balcony chairs. Chat swiped them with nary a second thought, hurrying back to the pointed rooftop.

"Here." He laid the first one down on the cold tiles, almost shooing her towards it when she eyed it from her huddled limbs.

"Did you just steal a blanket?" she questioned, but nevertheless shuffled over to sit on the fluffy fabric.

"We're just borrowing it." He draped the second one over her, so that she was effectively swaddled from the cold on all sides.

Not really knowing what else to do, he moved to sit opposite, sliding his back down a metal pipe. Or a chimney. Maybe it was an air duct?

What were these things seemingly on every roof? You'd think I'd know by know.

Ladybug clutched at the excess of blankets around her. Truthfully, Chat wasn't even sure if they would help: through the winters and summers they'd worn their suits, Chat had never actually felt hot or cold. He'd always assumed that the magic extended to protecting the wearer from the elements. Maybe that was the problem here. Maybe because the heat was coming from within, the suit wasn't able to adjust in the same way.

He was broken out of his musing when he realised he was being watched, glancing up to find Ladybug's blue eyes gazing at him from over the top of the blanket. He froze under the weight of her stare, then started when she wordlessly lifted one corner out wide, silently inviting him to join her.

Chat held his breath. Their partnership had grown a lot from the days of awkwardly dancing around each other. They had grown. Even so, there were still times like this where she surprised him. Chat could confidently say they were friends but there remained some boundaries she was very careful with. Outside of battle, physical closeness was one. It was always special when she broke the professional mask to remind him in her own way that they weren't just partners. And though she usually did so with a long-suffering expression, he cherished it each and every time.

Ladybug shook the corner impatiently at his hesitation and Chat scrambled across before she could retract it. He settled next to her, leaving a couple of centimetres between them, and mimicked her posture, wrapping his arms around his legs. He imagined how comical they must look, with the blanket stretched between them, swamping her shaking shoulders yet barely covering his knees. Their height was one of the other things that had grown. Or rather, his had. Disarmingly, Ladybug had remained more or less the same.

She shifted a bit until her chin poked up from beneath the cover. Her forehead crinkled. "Chat, are you wearing cologne?"

Oh no.

He'd completely forgotten. It had been for his own benefit, to cover the lingering scent of the Seine still caught in his hair, but he had doused himself in some sort of concoction that morning. And for nothing, in the end. He could still catch sour whiffs of river algae despite the perfume and the fact that he had scrubbed his scalp at least ten times the night of the swim.

"Well, the last time we met you did mention odours," he told her.

"It was you and your 'enhanced senses' that brought up the topic," she reminded him. Her eyelids were half-closed before she lifted them suddenly. "Wait, do I still smell?"

He made a show of sniffing at the top of her head. "Yes, terrible."

"Oh." She seemed shocked. The illness was definitely affecting more than her temperature. Normally, she would've been naturally distrustful of his solemn tone.

His grin gave him away before she caught on. "I lied, you smell fine. I think your kwami isn't as lazy about preventing 'harmless side-effects'."

She hummed disapprovingly. "And I believe you also made a threat about nursing me."

He nodded. "I did."

He'd never thought the teasing promise would actually come true. He eyed her carefully, noting her glassy gaze and the clammy sheen over her skin and remembered the last time he'd seen something similar. She frowned under his examination.

"Tell me if you need to throw up," he said.

Her frown turned to bemusement. "What will you do?"

"I'll catch it." He cupped his hands in a bowl in front of her.

His chest swooped in delight at her small, breathy laugh. Or maybe it was more of a snort. He didn't really care.

"Gross," she said in an attempt at reproach. "And really not all that helpful. Aren't you going to try and send me home?"

"I know you well enough by now to know that it won't work." His lips quirked. "You're one of the most stubborn people I've ever met, and trust me when I say I know some very stubborn people."

Like my father. Or Alya, he thought, ruefully remembering the reason they were both there. Edmond Proulx's victorious smirk danced across his memory.

"I saw the program," he told her.

She slowly lifted her head. "And?"

"I was surprised. I thought I was the only Cat in Paris until they managed to go and dig up that sourpuss."

She gave a familiar sigh and leant back against the roof. "This is serious, Chat. How many people feel the same as him?"

"It can't be that many. I've never heard of the organisation before at all. "

She made a noise somewhere between a hum and a groan as she raised one hand to her flushed cheek. The ball of worry Chat was suppressing twisted sickly in his stomach. She shouldn't have to deal with this. Not right now.

"Don't worry," he added. "We've had critics before. They always come around. Why would this be any different?"

"Because he was right. Where are we going, Chat? What are we doing? I've been wondering that myself." She grimaced. "I shouldn't be surprised that someone else had the same questions."

"Ladybug?"

"What have we learned about Papillon in all this time? We don't know who he is, or where his base is, or even what he wants the miraculous for." She was breathing shallowly, her eyes bright and unfocused. "We don't know where akuma come from. We can't predict them. We can't prevent them. We can't get any clues from the victims because they forget everything."

She finished on a deep breath. "He was right. We're not getting anywhere."

"No, he wasn't." Chat couldn't say he was shocked. He'd known long ago that she was the more pessimistic of the two of them, but hearing these thoughts from her ached. They had done so much for their city. They sacrificed so much of their lives. How could she doubt them like this?

"He wasn't right," Chat told her again. "We're helping people. You're sick and giving up your time to protect a stranger—"

"Chat, don't." For some reason, this line of thought seemed to make her more upset.

He tried a different tactic. "We're not soldiers, my Lady. We're not workers. We're not here to save the world. All we need to do is keep the citizens of Paris safe. That's what we've done."

Her lips pursed. He thought she might keep pushing, but then her posture sagged and she sank back into the blanket with a shiver. He hadn't seen her this uncertain since the first time that Papillon had challenged them in front of the Tower.

"It feels so meaningless sometimes. What's the point of these powers if we can't change anything? It's like we're caught in a loop. Don't you… Don't you ever get tired of it?"

He had goosebumps.

"No," he whispered.

The air felt crisp enough to break, the night colourless and dull except for the faint glow of the Tower in the middle distance. He was silent as her gaze roved out over the sleeping city.

"Something needs to change, Chat. We can't do this forever. I… I have dreams I want to reach. I had a plan, before all this started." Her eyes were like ice, piercing the warm protection of his suit. "Isn't there something else you want to be?"

His immediate response caught in his throat. Feelings he'd gotten better at controlling were pushed back down into their neat pen. He didn't want to make her uncomfortable.

But he still felt it.

I don't care what I am as long as I'm with you.

continue reading on: FF / AO3

start from Chapter 1: FF / AO3

[familyagrestefanblog]

Not gonna lie, I really kinda hoped you were going to actually adresse the problem I was talking about that season 3 and 4 both have Marinette stop actually talking to Chat Noir and rather have her teach him lessons from above when the narrative puts Adrien in situations where he cannot defend himself against her when she goes too far and what she does because of his upbringing and the direct disadvantage he is in that after 4 seasons Marinette still isn't allowed to know that her partner has a horrible home situation.

Your reply is missing the point of what I'm actually saying and criticizing and it's now unfortunately just another regular explanation reply for what Marinette did currently. I know what circumstances happened, I'm not forgetting any of that. But the show has had a pretty one sided Ladynoir execution where Chat Noir is never allowed to defend himself against her when she goes physically and verbally too far, which im sorry but that happened not rarely. She is literally not treating a single other friend like him verbally and physically, the contrast between Chat and the other miraculous holders is massive. Or when do we see Ladybug flailing another miraculous holder around like Chat noir, literally ever ? People have been complaining about the way Ladybug/Marinette treats Chats autonomy for years. I'm not an irrational simp for criticizing the narrative never stopping Marinette/Ladybug from benefiting from Chat Noirs civilian abuse and it being brought to a new height in season 4 without there every being direct episodes where she learns to not do these things but Adrien does have those to adjust further to her.

I'm criticizing the narrative and how Marinette/Ladybug is just not given a single limit to what she can do to her partner without anyone in the show even remotely stopping her, especially when it's plainly bad in the context of Chat being a victim of excessive abuse. Chat Noir has always been and still is narratively at the mercy of her moods and how important she deems his physical autonomy in each individual episode to be. And if she just doesn't, then Chat has to endure whatever happens to him.

Because there is and has never actually been a single character in all of these 4 seasons who has been pointing out to Ladybug/Marinette when she needs to adjust her behavior towards Chat, which again isn't rare. Like her just pushing him into the Akuma without his knowledge or consent in "Backwarder" which you not seriously can call any where close to okay. What was that or all of "Reflektdol"? Marinette learns through having things go wrong and pointed out to her. But Chat isn't allowed to do that since season 3 and especially not in season 4 and no one does it for him, so she also hardly ever learned to not treat him unfairly or in some episode even straight up badly. Both of them have those episodes but it's only Chat Noir who gets always put in his place for it by her and gets teached a lesson to treat her right. And honestly its the fact that it is now after season 4, where Adrien was basically made to not have a single actual expectation for Ladybug regarding their partnership beyond "act like you like me" and took every degradation and blame while remaining still completely oblivious to basically everything Ladybug actually did that she thinks he should have left her now for, that Chat is now "rewarded" with Ladybug falling in love with him that is icky to me as well.

Really? Chat Noir REALLY had to be put through all of that by Ladybug/Marinette, reduced to mere temporary hero status, give up every expectation for her to every tell him anything or treat him like the equal he was supposed to be since he still knows nothing of the Alya situation to instead be content which her just liking him and wanting him around, always coming out of every conflict never blaming her and only always himself for asking too much of her (even when it was absolute basic and important survival/ battle informations, like in "Hack-San")? Chat Noir had to be completely separated from the miraculous hero lore as the second yinyang part and basically loose all his use and status as a miraculous holder ( because kuro neko basically has Adrien learn that neither should he ask to be of use nor even try, Ladybug doesn't want it and he failed miserably when he tried his hardest as Catwalker where she unknowingly then send him away for real and he only hurt made trouble by wanting to be included with his powers. Yeah Adrien learned that Ladybug likes him in that episode but it came at the cost of Adrien not daring to ask to be a bit more than her Chaton. He wants to help and do more as we could see him bloom uniquely as Catwalker at a later point,but the choice was straight up taken away from him by Ladybug first and then the narrative punishing him for asking and trying to be more. And til the end of strike back this lack of choice and direct punishment for trying to do more remains (Ladybug sending Chat away from Strike back but him trying to help anyway and being punished by basically everything afterwards for it) to finally have Marinette narratively fall in love with him too? And only AFTER the devils circle Ladybug was upholding and Adrien supported her the entire season was snatched away from her last second by Félix by stealing the other miraculous and therefore Chat is now the last one left and is cursed with such a horrible home life that returning to her was never even remotely a question for him, because he basically lost everything and everyone else at the end of strike back?

What kind of perfect victim narrative is this? Why did this NEEDED to be written this one sided in Ladybugs favor while Chats/Adriens entire remaining life burns to the ground to the point where he hasn't even officially returned back home in the end?

I dont at all mind the emotional moments these two have and its important that the emotional core is solidified before all else, but DUDE. The narrative, the circumstances and one sided LadyNoir dynamic surrounding all of that turns this into a frustrating burning mess. The LadyNoir dynamic shouldn't just be fine when everything around it from all of season 4 is ignored and written off by the ending scene.

I would kinda ask you to please reply again because you just gave me a vague explanation for some things that happened in the last two seasons that explain Marinettes overall behavior from her perspective in the way people have been doing it all season long but not the narrative criticism im talking about. And then you basically told me to shut up about voicing criticism towards Marinettes behavior towards Chat Noir because I'm a Chat Noir simp who just doesn't get Marinette and why she didn't do anything wrong ever.

I'm gonna be real and say that I really have a huge problem with how people are saying that the Ladynoir conflict in season 4 was great and needed for them "because Chat learned to voice his problems with Ladybug", because 1) Chat Noir already did that without a problem in the past its just that in season 3 Ladybug started to legit go on his throat and punish him for things she didn't like and that behavior/ habit came to an extreme in season 4.

Chat Noir not voicing his concerns towards Ladybug and instead swallowing down everything was learned behavior caused by Marinette/Ladybug learning the habit that she is entitled to teach Chat Noir lessons with direct physical and verbal punishments to make him behave the way she thinks he should instead of talking to him normally about it to solve the problem or in s3 get Fu to help, because in their normal dynamic there has legit never been a single person who stopped Ladybug from basically ANYTHING no matter how many lines she crossed. Marinettes approach of "solving Chats behavior issues" has already started to go increasingly downhill in s3 and it straight up needed her to outright loose him from her perspective in s4 "Kuro Neko" for it to start dawning on her that going on his throat for everything isn't the way to go. I mean the Kuro Neko ending scene still has her ignore his existence until he takes the full blame and her responding to "Chat Noir left because he didn't like being degraded into voiceless temporary hero status while I'm also being awful about it" still was "so I'm making his degradation official now but I'll be much kinder about it from now on!" which is still the same punishment technique which she also keeps til the end of "Strike back" the whole time through, but process is definitely there. I was legit surprised that Ladybug kept her hands/fists to herself in "Strike Back" because before "Kuro Neko" she would have not restrained herself while being angry with Chat Noir which brings me to

2) this is an abysmally low standard for the Ladynoir dynamic yall are praising into the heavens and I really need you to stop. Chat Noir finally not being afraid anymore to voice something Ladybug doesn't like hearing and her not immediately punishing him for it physically and or verbally but "forgiving him because she's so nice" is really NOT the golden, fluffy standard you make it out to be. The Ladynoir we saw in "Strike Back" should have always been the regular standard.

I said what I said